Interview with Justin Sane from Anti-Flag

A band that has been punk in its truest form since the early ’90s, Pittsburgh act Anti-Flag always has something to say with a fistful of rage when it comes to the government, what you see on TV and society as a whole. Anti-Flag released their ninth studio album American Spring last month to make their voices heard once again. They’ll be ripping up the stage at Simon’s 677 on Jun 19, so I chatted with frontman Justin Sane about the band’s recent solidarity with the Occupy movement, making a difference in your community and the band’s longevity.

Rob Duguay: Nearly four years after the Occupy movement started back in 2011, people have either said that the movement has fizzled out or that it’s still relevant, but on an underground level. What do you think about the present state of Occupy and how much progress do you think it has made so far?

Justin Sane: I think the most important part about the Occupy movement was the truths that it brought to light and the ideas that it brought to light. It’s going to take different shapes and different forms whether you attach the name Occupy to it or not. To be honest with you it doesn’t matter. What I really thought was amazing about the movement, and it had a big influence on American Spring in a lot of ways, was the notion of hope. This idea of decentralized power that Occupy brought, the idea of direct democracy and Occupy introducing the vocabulary of wealth inequality and particularly the 99% vs. the 1% to the mainstream. If you’re going to credit the Occupy movement with anything, it is bringing the issue of wealth inequality to light in the average American home. It helped a lot of Americans think about this issue when before it had probably never crossed their minds. A lot of people were really shocked when they started to understand the incredible gap between the rich and the poor that we have here in the United States. I think a lot of Americans look at places Mexico or any third-world country and say, “Oh wow, there’s a really great discrepancy between the haves and have nots there,” but we don’t look at our own country and see what’s going on. It wasn’t until Occupy started that people realized how big of a difference there is between the rich and the poor. Right now the wealth gap is the biggest it’s been since the Great Depression and it’s only growing. It’s an area that we definitely need to address.

RD: You do find it to be sugarcoated a lot in the mainstream here. They still try to make it look like the United States is better off than everybody else, but in truth the average American is just as deep in the hole as every other middle class and poor person on Earth.

JS: I fully agree. In the new album we’ve included a 26-page booklet featuring essays and ideas that inspired the songs. One of the people we quote in the book is Warren Buffett, which is something along the lines of “There’s a class war happening in America and it’s my class who’s winning.” It’s interesting because if you’re a left-leaning progressive you’ll say that there’s class war and the right wing will give you a hard time for being biased, but when someone like Warren Buffett is saying it, then it’s undeniable at that point.

RD: Speaking of American Spring, the album has been billed as an energetic antidote to the crippling cynicism that infects even the most dedicated of rabble rousers. Why do you think most people resort to being cynical about the world today rather than standing up and doing something about it?

JS: I think people are encouraged to be cynical. I think people are encouraged to believe that they should just give up and suck it up with this rugged individualism. They’re being told that if the system isn’t working then it’s something that you did so you should just deal with it and just be OK with it. It’s kind of a propagandist message that’s out there in our society and it works really well because it props up the banks, it props up Wall Street and it props up people who are reaping massive profits on the backs of everybody else. It’s a narrative right now that’s very popular that anybody can make it in America. There’s a track on the album called “Fabled World” that talks about that narrative and the fact that most people who made it are people who are starting in a place that’s far ahead of everybody else. The majority of people who are in a bad circumstance have a very hard time getting out of it and never break away from that. There’s always one example that they hold up like, “How about Colin Powell? He was poor and he made it.” There’s always this one example saying that anybody can do it because this one person did it. I think that narrative at its very core is really flawed because instead of emphasizing the idea that we should be lifting each other up, building community and that it’s okay to get help and it’s okay to actually help each other, it’s putting forth this idea that everybody should be in it for themselves and if you’re not good enough to be in it for yourself and you can’t make it, then it was your own fault. That’s not the kind of society that I’m interested in living in and it’s not the way that I want to approach life. It’s what drew me to punk rock. I loved the fact when I was young that I found this community of people who supported each other, helped each other and took care of each other — who shared similar concerns about the world and wanted to work together as a community. That, in itself, is what drew me to punk rock.

RD: American Spring is the band’s ninth album. What do you think has changed the most about Anti-Flag when it comes to making an album, going into the studio and writing songs today versus when you guys put out the debut album Die For The Government back in 1996?

JS: It’s easier because we’re so much better musicians and songwriters. You do something for decades then after a while you just get good at it. I think that records 10 years ago it would have taken us three to four months to make we can now make in three weeks because we can play the songs better. We’ve grown as musicians and if we haven’t by now, then I would be a little concerned.

RD: You can definitely notice the band’s music being a lot more polished nowadays.

JS: It’s funny because people complain that a certain record is too slick and it’s too produced, but the reality is that we can play that well now. It’s not like all of a sudden there’s this incredibly major jump in production, although there is a jump, but it’s more that we can play better now. People can be critical and say that it doesn’t have a raw edge or something when in actuality it’s all there, but we can just play better.

RD: It just shows progression.

JS: Yeah.

RD: Anti-Flag has always been known for their activism and supporting organizations like Democracy Now!, PETA, Amnesty International & Greenpeace. For any young kid who wants to make a difference in their own community, what do you think is the first step they should take?

JS: We actually have a list of organizations on the Anti-Flag website and I think it’s a pretty cool area to look into. If there’s something happening in your neighborhood or your community that you don’t like, go talk to other people about it and see if they share the same concern and see if there’s a way to organize people and make a change. One area I know where people can get started in their local community professionally is to go to your local food co-op. Almost every community has a co-op and quite often there are people who are organizing to change things in their community. Something I actually love to do is volunteer at the local food bank. Really get in touch with people in your community. You might cross paths with people who you don’t normally cross paths with and it’s a real eye opener and door opener into the fact that whether people are rich or poor, black or white and straight or gay, when it all comes down to it we’re all just human beings. Use the opportunity to interact with people and realize that there are so many awesome people out there and you’ll get to experience a lot of diversity.

RD: What are you most proud of when it comes to Anti-Flag as a whole?

JS: I do meet people a lot while on tour, and they’ll tell me that a song that we wrote influenced their life in a way that had an impact on who and where they are today. People have told me that they became a social worker because of Anti-Flag, that they became a lawyer and now they fight oil companies who pollute the planet or someone who instead of going down the path of joining the military decided to go in a different direction and work for an organization that could bring conflict resolution without military force. I run into those kinds of people a lot. I didn’t expect when we started the band that we would have an impact on people’s lives in that way. It’s really humbling and it’s very special to me. I always shudder and hold back a bit when I talk about the military aspect of it because I feel that people misinterpret me, but as much as I hate to say it, a big part of the reason why we started the band is because our military is used at the behest of corporations for corporate gain all around the world at the expense of everyone else. I know people don’t like to hear that, but it’s quite often the truth and for that reason I can’t encourage people to go into the military. When someone tells me that they were going to join the military and then they listened to Anti-Flag and it made them want to do something else with their life, for me it’s always special. Ultimately I don’t want kids killing and dying for corporations and corporate oligarchy. I want them doing positive and creative things that actually build community and help people.

Tickets to see Anti-Flag at Simon’s 677 on Jun 19: ticketfly.com/event/828363

Anti-Flag’s Website: americanspring.net